Paid search can unlock growth overnight. But it’s costly and requires sustained, ongoing investment. So how do you unleash the slow burn of organic growth over time? Enter your brand.
It’s not who you say you are but how you empathise with and address the challenges that your ideal customer profile is facing.
In this session, you’ll learn how a brains over budget approach can help you to generate content that cuts through and to leverage tools already at your disposal to amplify your message, creating an audience in the process.
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It was more than the four day work week. It was getting back to my roots of a startup and building something. Right? So I was at Marketo in the early days. I was at LinkedIn working at marketing solutions product like a start up within a larger org before we even had a paid product for the marketing solution, the fastest growing business.
Over to ActiveCampaign most recently. Oh, a quick stop by Microsoft. Not really my speed. And then back at ActiveCampaign, and I just moved over to a startup called CreativeX. So today, I'm gonna be talking about these lessons about how do you build a brand?
How do you build a brand to supercharge your growth? Right? I've done this over and over and over again, and the same taxes I brought to Marketo, to ActiveCampaign, to LinkedIn, to Microsoft, and now to CreativeX, where I'm in the position where many of you are today.
They work. They simply work. It's simple. It's a little silly. It's little bit fun. I'm a music fan. I'm a rock and roll photographer. I was photographing orchestral maneuvers in the dark last night at Usher Hall, which was magnificent. But I missed Biffy Clairo in London, so how ironic is that?
Anyway, really quickly, CreativeX. I just joined the company. I've been here for about three weeks. We're a new start up. What we do is we basically analyze your creative using AI to tell you how to make it more effective. And creative is the most under celebrated but best performing asset when it talk when we talk about creative effectiveness in our marketing.
So this is how CreativeX sees your creative, using our AI platform to analyze it and give you a score and tell you how to improve it, which increases brand lift, saves you money on your CPM, and so on and so forth. So enough about CreativeX. Let's dive into the story.
Alright. So I talk really, really fast, so and I do have twenty six minutes to get through. There's a lot to cover. This is I'm gonna take you back to nineteen seventy seven. This is John Travolta, Saturday Night Fever, the biggest selling one of the biggest selling records in the history.
It was on it was number one for eighteen weeks. On the charts for two years, disco ruled the world. It's in the Library of Congress as a significant cultural movement. Right? But the press loved disco. It was everywhere. This is all they would talk about anywhere.
No one else could break through, but there was this undercurrent. These lurkers hiding in the lights, outside of the lights of the big flashy disco world called punk rock, the Clash, the Pistols, the Ramones, but no one would pay attention to them. The Sex Pistols were the most censored band in the UK ever.
They had a number one single with God Save the Queen, but it wouldn't they wouldn't let it go to number one. It was a blank spot on the chart. They kept Rod Stewart at number one, and God Save the Queen was a blank spot at number two.
This was a dangerous, dangerous band. Right? But this laid the foundation oh, and the way that they told their story, they became so outlandish with their storytelling and their techniques that they forced the media to pay attention to them. Right? So there's a lesson here for marketers, and it's it paved the way for the clash.
Now the clash and Joe Strummer, they were disruptors. They didn't wanna throw a brick at your head and cause all out anarchy like the Sex Pistols, who were a flash of the pan, by the way, made it only through one album. The Clash wanted to start a conversation.
Right? They knew who they were, they knew what they stood for, and this is exactly what brands need to gravitate towards. Who are you? What do you stand for? What do you not stand for? Joe Strummer famously said, I think people ought to know that we're anti fascist, we're anti violence, we're anti racist, and we're procreative.
We're against ignorance. This is the clash. They have a mission statement for their band. Right? And later on, Cela Biafra, who is the lead singer of oh, man, you guys are killing me. Of the Dead Kennedys, punk rock icons, he famously pulled us together into a quote that I love so much that sets up this conversation.
Don't hate the media, but become the media. That is the opportunity. If someone's not talking about your brand or your product, how do you become the media? Well, I'm gonna talk about that. So I love this quote too, and this sets it up from Gwen Wiltz at Wahine Media.
She says, as people as people are more and more tuning out milquetoast marketing jargon, they're tuning into brands that stand for something, brands that have an opinion, brands that have a personality. When did we forget to have fun with our marketing? Right? So let's talk about the brand. What is a brand?
Very quickly, I'm gonna talk about that. But don't get ahead of yourself. I always say, don't let your brand guidelines hold your content or your messaging hostage. If you're talking about building a brand and no one knows who the hell you are, you have to build the audience first.
Build the audience first. Try some new things. Everything can't look and feel exactly the same. Don't talk about brand touch points if you don't have an audience. Right? So Dave Gerhardt sums up what a brand is perfectly. Very simple. One line. A brand is not your logo or your website, it's your reputation.
There are three things I'm gonna talk about today. Very simple. Brand building one zero one. Say something that matters, build an audience, amplify that message. Now, it sounds so easy, but everywhere I go, this works, but few people are doing it. Right? So I'm gonna start off with the blog.
The blog is the most under celebrated social media piece in history. It is the mothership. It is different than a resource center. A resource center is a static place where it's searchable with your content, but a blog is a storytelling mechanism. It moves in one direction. It's got likes.
It's got comments. It's indexed within the search engines within seconds. This is where you tell your story. It's very powerful. I like to say the blog is a social media rug that ties the room together. The dude would abide. Now what does that mean?
How do you put that into practice? So back in two thousand six, there was a guy who wrote this a guy named Rick Burns who wrote this blog post called the blogging food groups. Now I kinda took this and put my own spin on it, and brought it to Marketo.
I brought it to LinkedIn. The early days, I brought it to ActiveCampaign. This works, and it's fun. It's a good way to mix up your content. Now this is you don't have to follow this exactly, but I'm gonna walk you through this. Basically, you start off the week with some Raisin Bran content, get into spinach.
You you you're you're mixing up your content by topic, and you're giving your audience a reason to come back. Now I've mapped this back to some examples using heavy metal blogs that I love. Now we'll start off with Raisin Bran. Ease the ease your audience into the week.
Something very we call it Raisin Bran because it's easy to dish out. This is called how to appreciate heavy metal. Very simple. A few points here and there. That's razor bread. That goes into Tuesday, the spinach content. A spinach content, we call it that because it's something you chew on a little bit longer.
So that could be a piece of thought leadership. It could be a little bit of research. But here is illustrated by how heavy metal is keeping us sane. This is from the Atlantic. A guy wrote this about how he lives vicariously through his heavy metal, so he doesn't murder the person in front of him, taking too long, putting sixteen thousand sugars in his coffee.
Right? Then we get into Wednesday. This is the roast post. This is a substantially long form piece of content, fifteen hundred words plus. This is how you get to the first page in the search engines. This is how you own long tail conversations.
This is called the history of the new wave of British heavy metal. It's twenty six hundred words. It's exquisite. It is the definitive source. It ranks number one on the topic very quickly. Now, Thursday, we get into what I call Tabasco. This is what I love. This is a little fire on the tongue.
You'd be a little bit contrarian, bring a couple of opposing views together hosting a fight. This is called five seventies metal bands who were better than Black Sabbath. That's impossible because Black Sabbath invented heavy metal. Those comments, twenty seven, those are all my comments.
And then finally, after we go through that whole week of content, and again, by the way, everything I'm showing you today was produced by either one or two marketers with a very small budget. This is brains over budget. John Miller famously said, the founder of Marketo, no relation, he'll be the first to tell you that, not me.
But I reported directly to him, and he said, before I wrote my first line of code, I wrote my first blog post. And that's significant because Marketo started off as a PPC optimization platform, but as he wrote more and more and got the comments and got the audience and built it, he discovered the pain point was marketing automation, and they shifted the platform.
So back to the blogging food groups. My favorite day of the week, Friday, we call this cake content. This is something fun. This is a fun infographic, a fun video, but it's something to send your audience into the weekend with a smile on their face.
I'll show you how easy it is to pull together. This is the big the second biggest blog post on rock and roll cocktail dot com, which is my site called ten hysterical funny reviews of Led Zeppelin by ten people who hate it. I was being retargeted by the fortieth anniversary of arguably the greatest rock album of all time, Led Zeppelin four.
Went to Amazon to purchase it, but I knew noticed there were a thousand five star reviews, There was a significant number of one star reviews. I thought, who in the hell is gonna trash Led Zeppelin for? And I pulled together this ten bottom post, rolled it into a blog post, hilarity ensued, traffic ensued, and here's one of my favorite comments from a customer.
Yes. I know some people gave this album five stars, but I've seen some five star reviews for the movie Howard the duck here. That was much funnier when I was going through this morning. Alright. So, anyway, I brought a bonus piece of chocolate cake.
In case you didn't get that, I was coming back from Las Vegas years ago at Marketo, when I worked at Marketo. If I had to rank I was seeing Guns N' Roses, right, at doing their residency. If I had to rank events in my life, it would be birth of my child, wedding day, Guns N' Roses in Las Vegas, in that order. Right?
So I had this idea to do five content marketing lessons from Guns N' Roses. And I brought it into John Miller's office, and I said, John, what do you think about this? It's about the idea of scrappy breaking through the hair metal, a a career in longevity.
How do you apply that to marketing? And he said, I don't hate it. Which means that means I love it. So go go forward with it. But what would happen next? What would completely blow my mind? Guns N' Roses tweeted this article out, this blog post that I wrote.
This is real. This really happened. That means that Axl Rose may or may not be consuming Marketo's content. Now you might be asking yourself, what the hell does that have to do with marketing automation? Nothing. Right? But it it put a smile on our face of our audience, and it left them until the weekend, and they came back to go through this journey with again on Monday.
So now, in the effort of everything building on top of one another, it starts with the blog. Get some content rolling. You can take find that thematic content, find five or six blogs like those, for example, tie them together, and you roll them into what we call a big rock.
This is for lead gen. So you got your blog, so it's always on telling the story, then you have the big rock for lead gen. This comes from Marketo days as well. The big rock is essential for startups, for every marketing team. You need that one definitive piece of content, that stake in the ground.
What conversation do you want to own Is often the number one question on your prospect's minds. This could be a video. This could be a podcast series. It could be an e book for God's sake. But the point is, you have to create this definitive piece of content.
What conversation do you want to own? And it really goes back to the basics of all the data that's out there, all the questions that are being asked are out there. So the keywords. Do some quick and dirty keyword research. Hire an agency if you got some budget.
If you don't, go to answer the public. They type in your keyword phrase. It will blossom up a pinwheel of beautiful ideas, is great for blog ideation, and also copywriting. Copywriting for your ads as you're trying to promote this stuff. So the one thing that comes up quite a bit is there's too much value going into one asset, but you're that's a short term vision of what's possible.
Right? This thing, this one piece of content could be enough to fuel your demand gen and your social efforts for up to six months, up to a year, and in many cases longer. I'll show you in a second. So this is an old analogy.
I pulled this out from a deck that I did years ago, but it still works. We slice and dice our big rock content like leftover turkey. Right? It's kinda silly, but it's memorable, and it makes sense. Then this was the big rocket LinkedIn.
Now we we launched this before we had before anybody knew who the hell we were or gave a crap about us. There was a running joke around Halloween every year at LinkedIn. It was, wanna see a real graveyard this Halloween? Go look at your LinkedIn feed because we weren't getting any engagement at all.
So we had to tell a story. What was that conversation we wanted on? We well, I wrote the guide called the sophisticated market's guide to LinkedIn, and we launched this thing into the world. That's a little confidence piece here. Oh, you guys are killing me today.
So repurpose and repurpose and repurpose. That one piece of content, we had a hundred and forty four derivative pieces of content out of that. One piece of content kept going and going and going on a team of two marketers and a small boutique agency and a tiny little bit of budget.
Right? So you can do this, but this is essential. This is where you tell your story. This is where you own that conversation. What do you stand for? What do you not stand for? Right? And then we took it global. This one piece of content kept going and going and going and going.
We localized it into eight different languages around the world, but this is where it gets to the fun part. Now most people, most marketers, brand marketers, content marketers, whatever, when they launch a piece of content, they push it out in the world, they move on to the next thing.
That is so wasteful. Right? I call this the bat out of hell strategy. Now, this is basic demand gen one zero one powered by the big rock. So this is what it looks like. Big rock is gated. Big rock is split out in all these different assets.
It's sort of the tentacles out there in the world, always on. A little bit of paid, a little bit of organic. Organic is now dead, claiming that anything any marketing discipline is dead in twenty twenty one is so passe. Right? But it once the once the lead form is filled out, we score them.
Are they an m q l? If are, they go over to an s t r, they get qualified, they go over to sales, they turn into revenue. If they are not, go into a nurture track, and they are nurtured with more content was the answer I was looking for.
This works. It's simple, but it works. How many people are doing this? You'd be surprised. Nobody has this figured out. Even in Microsoft, they didn't have this figured out. Right? But it's it's it's important to get the content and extract as much value as you possibly can out of this stuff.
Right? So here's the big launch. Cannons. They're animated cannons. Thought that was pretty good. I took out the exploding pie charts. So but this again, you're coming out of the gate swinging. You got one shot to make an impact with this. Blow this thing out.
Get every person in the company to launch. Launch this like you would launch a product. Right? Because this is your big bet. It's your intelligent risk. Here's the beauty. Here's a little secret on how we scaled this thing so quickly at LinkedIn. We took the same piece of content because it was relevant to so many different audiences.
We dropped it into some direct sponsored content into the feed where it only goes to the audience you're targeting, and we just changed the messaging to to speak to that audience. This is personalization hacking. Right? It's super easy. The content is exactly the same, but the messaging and the targeting is very specific, and it worked, and it drove results, and it drove leads, and it drove started creating this brand awareness where people started to care about marketing on LinkedIn, and that's exactly what we wanted to do.
This one piece of content had an eighteen thousand percent ROI in the first six months on a small budget and a team of two. I'm telling you, this is easy to do if you focus, you get the conversation right, and you extract every ounce of value out of this content.
Now, six years on, this book that I wrote years ago is still going strong. Millions and millions of views, eight different languages. They celebrated the five year anniversary on a piece of content, for Christ's sake. Like, tell me the last time that's happened.
But it's just like a best selling book on Amazon. Each year, you get a revised version, you put it back out. David Meermann Scott, every year with the new rules of PR and marketing, a new addition. Add some new stats, add some new customer stories, put a fresh coat of paint, change the cover, but the core stays the same.
You're building authority over time. You're getting link backs. This is all building something. Right? So what happens next? You got the blog. You got the big rock. Now let's talk about activating your employees. This is low hanging fruit. I will tell you this.
Trying to build an organic following on a LinkedIn company page, which is where the big opportunity is these days, is near impossible. Right? But the secret is you have to get your employees. Your employees' profiles drive much more. In fact, from the research at LinkedIn, we showed that employees' combined connections to social networks are on average ten times larger than a company's followers.
Furthermore, shared content is more credible. They're more engaged. Thirty one I'm read the stats to you. Every place I've been to had an advocacy program that was successful, that got the sales team excited. We gamified it. Right? But we showed them it boost their LinkedIn profile, their personal brand profile as well.
So it's in their best interest. It's in your best interest as a start up to build the profile of your executives, and you do that through LinkedIn. Now, this is more research from LinkedIn. What's in it for the whole company? What's in it for me?
That's always the question. Well, every six pieces of content shared across LinkedIn influences job views, company page views, company page followers. It lifts the whole org. This is the right thing to do. It doesn't have to be overly salesy. It's a mix of the big rock.
It's a mix of the turkey slices. It's a mix of the blogging food groups. Keep this fun and engaging, but spend some time with the copy. Don't just put this out there and say, check out whatever the hell you're trying to promote. It just doesn't work like that.
So one single employee sharing two pieces of content a day can add up to twenty three million in additional reach. If you put a monetary value of, say, three dollars per impression based on the latest PR metrics, that's a significant amount of money.
Right? So I don't get paid for recommending anybody, but Gaggle Amp is a good one for start ups. The guy, Glenn, who runs it, super cool guy. You can gamify it. You can automate it. You can put all this content into a queue.
It's empowering the sales team. It's empowering that sharing, that advocacy that everyone so desperately needs. Right? So let's talk about LinkedIn posting essentials. I'm gonna dive into LinkedIns very specifically because all that content, you can take bits and pieces from that, from the blog post, from the big rock, from the turkey slices, and you can plug these into LinkedIn in an effort to keep them on the platform because LinkedIn likes to keep people on the platform.
Links still work here and there, but if you can keep them in the platform with some text based posts, this is where the magic is. So this is what you have to work with. Thirteen hundred characters per post. End with a question or divisive statement.
The goal is to start a conversation here. Leverage hashtags, of course. Three, I think, is the key moment there. Square images. Square images. No longer no longer the sixteen by nine, the white screen. Go for the square because it works across different platforms and on mobile.
So here's an example. These are simply paragraphs out of a longer form blog post that I dropped into LinkedIn. The content has already served its purpose, but now I'm extracting more value out of it. I literally pulled this from a blog post and started a conversation.
Ten thousand eleven thousand views, a hundred and forty four likes, twenty seven comments. This is how you do it. Take existing content that makes a point in that space you have and drop it in. This works brilliantly for building executive profiles. Now posting strategy.
Very quickly, ten to twenty minutes a week. If you can do ten to twenty minutes a day, that's awesome. But ten to twenty minutes a week is really all you need. One or two solid posts a week to get some traction, but you gotta reply to the comments immediately.
It shows that it sends that that signal to the algorithm, right, that that this is getting engagement, and people are actually talking about this. Comments can go a long way. I commented on a post the other day, and it's been going for six months.
I'm still getting tagged in this conversation from a comment, and it was just about a restaurant that I went to. It was a silly comment, but the power of commenting, the power of engaging. We're supposed to be doing this anyway. Right? Types of posts. I'll share this.
I'll tweet this out if you guys wanna don't need to take notes, but there's tons of stuff on this. I go to this guy, John Aspiring. Anybody know John? This guy knows more about LinkedIn than LinkedIn knows about LinkedIn. He is brilliant. Follow this guy.
He has a program. He he's he all he does is spend time trying to figure out how to hack the algorithm, and not a bad way, but in a good way. Right? That benefits anyone who has good content or something as they are a conversation to start.
Right? So I'll share this with you. I know I'm running out of time here, but I wanted to touch on something really quickly to wrap this up. Now there can be paid programs, PPC, all this stuff. Right? But what really matters in today, the one thing that I've learned is you have to pull in influencers.
Right? I'm not thrilled about this because I'm not I I just don't really love the the flamboyant influencer lifestyle like it's a bad name, but I found that this in the start up world, you have to employ this. This is the only way to supercharge your growth very, very quickly.
So I'm not gonna get too deep into this, but I'm gonna tell you exactly what I learned at the last three companies I was at where I where I started the influencer program. And I'll tell you what, I met with everyone under the sun, from the influencers to the agencies to the startups, like everything, trying to figure out what's the best way to approach this, and I came to this conclusion.
Right? Very simple. I'm looking at the wrong thing. There we go. You have to decide, is it managed or is it self serve? Right? So do you hire an agency to do this? Which is not cheap. You're looking about twenty or thirty k a month to get this off the grand ground.
But you can also go to a platform and do this do this yourself. Right? Find those influencers by targets, by keywords, set out your goals. This is super important, forget about this. You can't just drop a campaign to an influencer and expect them to get results.
Right? I had influencers actually responding to a campaign that I posted. It was a disaster. And they said, yeah, just send me send me some of your swag and and some of your shoes and some of clothes, and I'll put them on I'll put them on my Instagram.
I'm like, it's a ******* software provider. There's no there's no shoes or they just don't get it. They don't care. They're in it for the money. But if you set your goals and you get some help, you can find these influencers and partner with them, make sure you're aligned, you're getting your voice to their audience shaped through their through their eyes, and it works incredibly well.
So, again, manage or self serve. Use a self serve platform or hire an agency to do it. Set your goals. I'd say start off with five to ten influencers to begin with. Build that relationship. Let them know what success looks like. Pay them. Pay them.
Do not expect them to do anything without paying them, but make sure that you're getting your money's worth. Let them know what success looks like. And if it works out, then you scale it out and pay them more. Again. And this is so this is from Ace Influencers, an agency that I was talking to who we're getting ready to run a program with.
They are full service. They do this for you, and they broke this down. I brought this slide from their pitch deck. But I recommend the micro influencers. Anything I've found anything over a hundred k on the influencers, you don't get the influencer on the phone, you get their people.
And that's when I'm like, I don't wanna be part of this conversation. Like, you get their people. I'm like, does the influencer not even on the call? Like, I I just don't get it. So ten to hundred k, that seems to be the sweet spot for startups where we can actually get some traction, find those people who actually give a **** and wanna align with your goals.
Right? So this is this is from my my buddy Joe Zinkwitz. I'm sure some of you know him. He's a brilliant marketer. I've known him for years. I was asking, what does the conversion rate look like? Because it's all over the board, but he gave me this as a baseline.
I really like this. This is the baseline for conversion. You're looking at ten percent impression to click, five percent click to action. If you can hit these, you are winning. So again, blog, the big rock, LinkedIn, and influencers. That's what I think is the magic formula.
Again, I don't get any affiliate links here, but these are the people I talk to. Intellifluence is a self serve platform that Joe owns. It's a brilliant platform. Get on there, find your influencers, and then they have a managed option too. I think it's like six hundred bucks a month.
That is dirt cheap for influencer marketing. These other two, great companies, Viral Nation. If you wanna go nuclear, this is the big one. If you want to go a little more strategic, Ace was really good as well. So just just from folks I've spoken to who helped me out and got me into a good place and helped me understand influencer marketing.
So I will wrap up here with a couple minutes left. Everything that I showed builds on top of the other. Right? This is all processed, and it's supposed to be a well oiled machine once you get this up and running, but then you just have to maintain.
But I will tell you, you have to ask yourself as a marketer, are you checking boxes? Are you celebrating mediocrity? Are you pushing **** out the door just to get it live? Take a step back. Every single touchpoint in this early journey could be the first touchpoint on a journey to a customer, to a download, to a hundred thousand dollar deal, to a partnership.
Every single touch point matters at this stage. So pay attention. Go back, read David Ogilvy's advertising copyright rules. These are the basics of marketing that we've seemed to forgot because we're moving so goddamn fast. So I'll leave you with one more quote from the great David Bowie.
He was backstage at the London Forum in the seventies. A reporter comes up to him and says, hey, David Bowie, are you original? He said, absolutely not. He said, but the only art I'll ever study is stuff that I can steal from. There are no more original ideas ever anymore.
Everything has been done to death. So how do you take something like the blogging food groups inspires you, that's fun, put your own unique spin on it, and push that idea forward? This is called thought leadership. Thought leadership is thrown around so loosely these days.
The world has plenty of thought leaders, but certainly not enough thought leadership. But back to the clash before I leave you. The record company came up with this message and called them the only band that matters, and it stuck because they cared about they walked the walk.
They they had a message, and they connected with everything that was wrong with the world and the hedonistic view of disco, and they killed disco. And we can thank them for that. I still like disco. I love the Sizz and Sisters, but we would all probably be dressed much differently now if punk rock wouldn't have come along at the time it did.
So Joe Strummer famously said, very simple. This is what I'll leave you with. Don't write slogans. Write truths. Think about that when you're writing your copy or your narratives or your brand guidelines, but don't get too far ahead of yourself and start thinking you have a brand before you have an audience.
That is critical. By the way, I ran into coming back from a show, and I ran into anybody know this? Come on. That's **** Jones from the class I ran into on the tube station. And then and this is true story, true story.
I walked outside when I was at Microsoft a couple years ago. I walked outside of the office, and I ran into Glenn Matlock from the Sex Pistols sitting outside there, and I swear to God, he says, what are doing here? I said, I work at Microsoft.
He goes, do you do? Said, I work on the AI I do the AI marketing. I said, what are you doing here, Glenn? He goes, oh, I'm just hanging out. I live around the corner. He goes, do you know who was born on the doorstep of Microsoft's office?
Alan Turing. And we didn't know it. So when you're walking outside of the tube station, there is a tribute to Alan, the the Turing machine that made it so popular and cracked the enigma in the war. Lots of people don't even know what the hell that is, but next time you're leaving Paddington Station, look to your left, you'll see So the spirit of Alan Turing living on.
These are my recommended books, how to be ******* awesome. This guy is brilliant, Dan Meredith. The bible of content marketing, content rules by the great Ann Hanley. Ignore everybody, my favorite book of all time on creativity by Hugh McCloyde. Steal like an artist by Austin Kleon.
These are my resources to answer the public, Grammarly, LinkedIn, BuzzSumo. This is my newsletter if you're interested. I only ship it out once a quarter, but I put a lot of work into this. This is my website. If you sign up for the newsletter, I'm giving away a couple of my concert photography book that was launched via Kickstarter a couple years ago, and we're doing a giveaway.
So please sign up, and this is my book if you're interested in where all this came from. Welcome to the funnel. Thank you, Brian, for having me. Thank you, Turing Pess. We'll see you around. Cheers.
