AI has made products faster to build and trivially easy to copy, and with tens of thousands of new companies flooding every category, a product-led growth strategy risks turning your software into an Oreo, indistinguishable from a shelf of cheaper generics competing only on price. Undifferentiated products churn for a small discount, get their innovation gutted keeping up with rivals, and eventually run out of road.
Amy Hsuan, chief revenue and chief customer officer at Mixpanel, argues that the most overlooked source of durable differentiation is go-to-market itself, reframed as creating experiences that inspire confident buyer decisions. She dissects why companies get GTM wrong, from glacial annual planning to bolted-on sales methodologies that turn reps into robots, and shows how to turn frontline teams into a customer-insights engine feeding product. Her playbook leans on the human strengths AI can't replicate, listening, trust, guiding through complexity, and a deliberate bet on a small team of top performers over an average one.
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Thank you so much. I am so incredibly excited to be here. This is my first Touring Fest. My first time in Edinburgh. Thank you for those who corrected my pronunciation yesterday. And I've had already so many amazing conversations. So last night I was speaking to Max, who is building a gaming app to detect Alzheimer's, fifteen years before you get diagnosed.
I was talking to Neil about building a testing platform for the government of Switzerland. And I'm here today because I sell software. Which means that I'm the person who thinks about how you make money off of all the things that you're building here, and how to grow revenue, right?
That's my primary purpose. So I'm a chief revenue officer and a chief customer officer. So within these two hats, what I care about most is growing revenue, making a lot of money for my company as predictably as possible. And on the customer officer side of the house, I care about driving adoption, driving value for our customers.
And within both of these things, I want to do it as efficiently as possible. Now, it's really easy and amazing to do that when you've built a product that just sells itself, right? How many of you are pursuing a product led growth strategy, and betting on that as being your primary growth lever?
Anybody, anybody? All right, so welcome. You are one of ninety one percent of companies who have invested in PLG, because it just makes so much sense, right? It's so alluring. Know, that you build a product, it's amazing. Customers get activated, they get onboarded, they grow, and then miraculously when they get to a certain tier, they upgrade and they upgrade to like a giant enterprise account.
That actually doesn't really happen. So I'm here today to challenge you to think a little bit about how do you really differentiate with your go to market investments? How do you actually take your PLG strategy and marry it with a really strong customer led experience strategy that your go to market can deliver, and actually differentiate in ways that are very, very hard to copy.
So, let's talk a little bit about the moment that we're living in right now. So this whole conference is actually about AI, right? Paul spoke this morning about the impact of AI. Many of the talks today have been about AI. And the reality of it is, is that we're living in this incredible era of incredible innovation, and incredible speed of product, and the world is just getting more and more crowded.
And it's not because AI in itself is creating a lot of opportunity, but it's also creating a bit of a threat, right? So ChatGPT was launched in twenty twenty three, and in less than a year, there was eleven thousand AI companies that basically were born in just the top ten countries, and that number is now seventy thousand.
And there's a ton of opportunity in this space, but it's also getting very crowded because of AI. So everyone knows that AI has sped up a lot of the product development life cycle. About forty percent of your product development life cycle can now be completed by AI.
It's basically changed the way we develop products. The market is getting more crowded, and we're living in this era where your product can be instantaneously copied. There are AI companies out there that are actually creating a product that can basically disambiguate your product and make a replica.
And I know that while that seems like a really exciting opportunity for some of you, because there's no better form of flattery than copying your competitive product, I can tell you that from a revenue perspective, that means if you're pursuing a product led growth strategy, not only is your product becoming highly commoditized, but so is your entire customer experience.
So, as you can probably tell from my accent, I'm an American, I spend most of my time in San Francisco, and, but I travel a lot. And I love, love, love to go to grocery stores in different markets and explore the different offerings in there.
And across all of my travels, I have come to really ponder the fate of the Oreo cookie. Now, the Oreo, for those of you who don't know, was actually created to compete with another established product in nineteen twelve. And that established product was a cookie that was kind of very poorly named, called the Hydrox cookie, which everybody really wants to eat, right?
And Oreo was created by Nabisco in nineteen twelve. And Oreo basically was a category defining cookie. It created a whole category of sandwich cookies. And interestingly, if you really think about the Oreo cookie, which I've pondered a lot, you know, across my different travels, it's like interesting, very unique cookie.
It has like chocolate ish wafers, vanilla ish cream filling, kind of hard to place, right? And in the US, as I've kind of ventured across all the grocery stores, and now as I've been in Europe, what I've realized is that there are hundreds, if not thousands of generic versions of Oreo cookies available, not in just the US, but also in the UK.
Now, the pricing and the packaging is not that different, but essentially your PLG strategy is a little bit like the fate of this Oreo cookie, right? So if you go to the different grocery markets, what you'll notice is, is that the Oreo cookie, actually I went to the local Sainsbury's down the street from my hotel, and it's selling for ninety pence a package.
And all of the competition is selling at fifty eight cents a package. Your PLG strategy essentially is driving this level of commoditization, where the only front that you're competing on at this point is price. Now, a revenue leader's perspective, I don't wanna be selling Oreos, and you all don't wanna be selling Oreos either.
Because in reality, when you're selling software, what happens is your sales cycles get very, very long, because customers are essentially comparing the ingredients list, right, for hours, trying to distinguish what's different between your two products. They're basically engaging in very, very long POCs trying to decide, you know, which one is better than the other.
And then at the end of the day, all you do is come down to price. So what happens in this market? With the pace of innovation, the rate of copying, and just like the change in the way customers are thinking about their needs, you end up in a situation where like, if you don't differentiate, you're going to die.
And let me tell you what happens when you have a highly undifferentiated product. Your customers will churn for a small discount, your product innovation gets gutted because you're just trying to keep up with your competitors, And at the end of the day, you don't really have a future anymore, right?
Not to paint anything too bleak, but I literally want to print out this slide and like hang it all over our offices, because the reality of it is in this era, if you don't differentiate, gonna get copied. Actually, also want to put this on my kids' rooms, because I feel like this is like a key message for life.
Go differentiate, there's no warm and cozy messages in my household. So in any case, as a CEO and a founder, you're sitting there thinking, where is my core source of differentiation? How am I going to stand out in this market? How am I going to create something that's memorable and attractive to customers, where I can price it at a premium rate, right?
That is like the future for any SaaS companies looking to go upmarket. And I've spent many years as a management consultant working at the Boston Consulting Group. And across my time there, I worked with a lot of companies on some of their most strategic, biggest strategic challenges.
And what I've come to find is that there's common sources of differentiation that companies are going to go and look for. And then like when you do pure strategy, one of the most core tenants of kind of creating a winning strategy is finding that pillar where you can have an edge in terms of competitive advantage.
Now, we just talked about product. So product has historically been the hard source of differentiation. Hard to copy, hard to imitate. It results in more performant, higher quality, better design, the combination of the features creates something very unique. As I just said, this is getting harder and harder with the rate of copying in the market.
The second key area that is a very typical area for differentiation is business model innovation. So business model differentiation, so one example of this is, obviously PLG is an example of this, right? When Adobe was like first launched the market, they were annual like kind of transactions, and they went to a subscription kind of service, and that kind of really revolutionized like the way SaaS is now, right?
And it changed the relationship with the customers, changed the way customers really engage, and kind of how they buy software. So that's like a great example of business model differentiation. What I'll say about business model differentiation though, is that it's also somewhat risky, because if you create something and then you try to sell it completely differently from how anyone else is doing in the market, you also stand to confuse the heck out of your customers.
And it takes a long time to really get this right, and at high risk. Now the other key common source of differentiation that companies go to, because they think it's easy and it's not, is brand, which is how do you create something that stands for a mission, a vision in a very unique way?
And I'm not gonna speak about that today because there's another talk right after me, which you should tune into, about the power of brand and how it can drive revenue. But this is also a common source of differentiation. Now, there's two sources of differentiation that are highly overlooked in all of my work with various companies.
One of them is segmentation. So segmentation is about finding an underserved niche in the market and exploiting that. Now why is segmentation often overlooked? So typically, it's overlooked because one, it's very, very hard to get market data. You almost never have a complete data set to understand you're gonna segment, what you're gonna segment on.
Then you have to figure out how you slice and dice it to find the right pockets of growth. And then the third thing about segmentation that's a little bit risky is that you run the risk of getting too niche, and then you have no TAM.
So if you try to exploit this too much, you end up in this tiny little market building something that's very niche, never gonna scale and grow, right? Now, the other category of overlooked sources of differentiation is go to market. Why is go to market always so overlooked?
Well, I mean like, let's just face it, right? It is a beast. What is go to market anyway? It is marketing sales, it's like basically the whole kitchen sink of everything you're spending money on. And go to market is very expensive, so like if you're a seed stage company, you're probably spending somewhere around like sixty to eighty percent of your revenue on go to market.
It's also really, really hard to get right, because it basically is an investment in people. And in many cases, to market is essentially very hard to transform, because by the time you've figured out what segment you're going after, by the time you figure out how to align your go to market strategy, boom, like the customers have already changed their minds about what they want, and you're kind of stuck in the middle of trying to constantly iterate on something that's basically a big boat trying to be steered down a small river.
So what do you do in this case, right? So I just wanted to take a step back and tell you a little bit background, and why I've kind of come to this perspective on that go to market is one of the most differentiating places that you can invest in.
So I work at a company called Mixed Panel. We've been around for a really long time. We've been around for sixteen years. And we were actually founded and pioneered this space of product analytics, which basically enabled huge generation of startups to launch their product led growth strategies, right?
We provide user analytics, behavioral analytics that enable fast onboarding and growth into products. And for many years, we ourselves were a core product led growth company. And for many years, we tried to accelerate our growth into enterprise using PLG, because we thought that's our strength, we know that market well, we know how to accelerate that growth for our product, and why aren't we seeing these companies jump into large enterprise accounts?
The reality of it is, is PLG will only get you so far. You know, from one perspective, like a very, like point zero zero one percent of our customers join us in this kind of like very efficient PLG, you know, onboarding, they join our free plan, they activate in the product and they grow and they scale and then boom, they become unicorns, right?
That's like everybody's dream. That's like a very small percentage. You can't really drive a really predictable revenue growth strategy from that. If I take a couple of steps back in my career, I started my career as a journalist, you know, right out of college.
I was a newspaper reporter back in the day when printing presses started at seven pm, and you had to get your story in on deadline, and you basically, it was a very sort of interesting time to be a reporter, because it was in the process of massive disruption at that time.
And I've learned a lot as I've kind of progressed through my career, also having led the people team for three years at Mixpanel, that the real unlock when you think about growth strategies is really beginning to think about how do you unlock different competencies within the organization to drive the most specific acceleration on experiences you're going to provide across not just your product, but across your entire customer experience.
I'm going talk a little bit about the reasons why a lot of companies get go to market wrong. And this stuff is like stuff that literally we've done at Mixpanel, and we've sometimes done them several times, and now we've kind of taken a new approach.
So the first reasons why companies fail at go to market is number one, they don't strategize enough. So ten years ago when I was at BCG, the common thinking was every company should be on a three year strategy cycle. Every three years, you should buy a BCG team who's going to create your three year strategy for you and you iterate that on every three years.
That is way too slow now. The market is changing so quickly. Paul said this this morning, and it really resonated with me, which is you need to be strategizing on a quarterly basis. And it needs to be, you need to speed your strategy cycles up.
And the set it to forget it, you know, part of strategy actually is compounded when you think about go to market annual planning. So those of you who have done go to market annual planning, you know that it sucks. You know, like eight months before the next year, before you even know how you've ended Q3, you have to start thinking about what is the revenue target I'm going to hit?
And the typical math that follows is basically six to seven months of arithmetic, whereby you take your revenue target, you take how many people you can hire with it, you create like average quotas, and then you create average pipeline targets for your marketing team that feed into your demand plan, that feed into your roll up of how many people you can hire.
And then by the time you get to the beginning of the new year, you realize like, the business has actually changed in like six to eight months. And we've spent all this time in like spreadsheets and doing math, and none of the big thinking around like how do we actually succeed as a company, and what's gonna be differentiating, and the real strategic problems that you have.
And the other thing about annual planning I would say is this. I see someone giggling over here. The other thing about annual planning that is this, is that in go to market, there are more benchmarks and more metrics and more data points that tell you whether or not your go to market strategy is working or not, none of that exists for the engineering product and designers out there, right?
When I go to the board meetings, have to review like fourteen different metrics, and annual planning basically, with all those metrics, makes you create a very average revenue strategy, right? Average, what's the average quota you give to somebody? What's the average attainment we assume they're gonna have?
Nobody wants to build an average team. So the third thing that happens is that you finally get all of your annual planning done, and then you're like crap, the year's already started, I just finished my plan, I haven't done any hiring, I'm supposed to start February first with like a team.
Let's just take all of our SMB people and move them up market and say we're going up market and we're going go do enterprise. But the reality of it is, is that enterprise customers buy very differently. It's not just the rep, right? It's not just the sales rep.
It's also about the product, the permissions, the governance. There's a whole list of topics that enterprise companies care about very differently. And then you get to this process and you realize, oh, after two quarters, nothing has changed, but we have all these people who are not performing.
So let's go and buy a really expensive sales methodology. Okay, there's like lots of companies out there that make a lot of money on sales methodology. They're force management, they have all these interesting militaristic names. Force management, challenger sale, you know, like there's a whole variety of things.
And then you go and you buy a really expensive sales methodology, and you shove it down the throats of your sales reps, and you hope that they become robots, because that's what drives a consistent experience for your customers. And at the end of the day, what happens is that you've actually lost the entire ability for your sales team to think and have judgment and do all these things, right, that you need them to do in the field.
And what happens in this case, when you think about like the customer experiences, your sales team is taught to ask question A, and they get response D from the customer. And you say question A again, right? They're not listening at the end of the day.
And when this all fails, what happens is you get to a reality where it's like, oh, nobody actually really owns the customer experience in an organization. Is that engineering product and design? Is that go to market? From my experience, I'll share that engineering product and design gets credit for all the happy customers, and all the unhappy customers are GTM's problems.
But at the end of the day, there's nobody there thinking holistically about the customer experience. This is like the cycle that I've seen play out over and over again at companies. So what do you do about this, right? Go to market strategy and differentiation is not just sales strategy, and it's not just how do you make money off of your product, right?
It's actually taking a big step back and really thinking about how do you redefine what go to market is about? So when you look at the customer journey, and you map out what's really happening with your customers, what you realize is that your product is only a tiny, tiny, tiny sliver of experience your customers have with you and your team.
Now, there's a whole bunch of friction that's created in this buying process, this journey, right? Because of all of your own internal processes. And so one big mistake I see often is customer experience is built around what's like an internal process that's efficient for us.
And that creates its own set of friction. And then you have all these things that are about your customers' organizational dynamics and friction. If you've ever walked the halls of a large enterprise company, like I have at many of them, you will realize that large enterprises are highly dysfunctional, because there's so many people, and nobody can make a decision.
And so there's constant stalling in the decision process, and there's people pop up at the last phase to voice something, and everything goes haywire. And then the process of all of this unfolding, it's like the macroeconomic situation has completely changed. Environment has completely changed, interest rates have fallen, and if you're going on an enterprise sales journey, and your sales cycle is ten months to fourteen months, basically this whole spaghetti diagram results in a no decision, which is actually the best way to tank your ROI on your GTM
investments, right? You spent all this time and nobody bought anything. I know many of you are in the early stages of building your company, and I would encourage you to think about what is the ideal customer experience early on, right? Before you've kind of created this nasty, dark green snake of all the things that you do internally, map it out, and see what that really looks like.
So I challenge everyone to think about GTM in this way, which is go to market is really about creating experiences that inspire confident buyer decisions. Inspires confident buyer decisions. You want to inspire your customers, You want to make them confident about what they're choosing and why.
And then you want them to decide, right? The decision point can't be lost. And that's why when you take a step back and you think about what is go to market, what's the power of that? Why is that so strategic? Because there's a lot in here that has left to be done in the best customer's experience.
Now, you might be thinking, well I have this massive EPD investment, I also have this massive go to market investment. How do I deploy these things in a way that make the most sense? That actually strategically taps into the core competencies of each one of these.
Now one way to think about it, is who is best positioned to develop what type of experience? By skill set or incentives, right? Incentives play a big role in this. One thing to think about here is product is fantastic at the system. You create a scalable, repeatable, one to many experience, that's the system.
Go to market excels at the story. It's human, it's consultative, it's high touch. There's so many things about that, even as we've kind of progressed, right, that are so unique to what you can do with go to market. And why would you turn that into something that you can do with AI?
So the power of go to market are these things for me when I think about it. These are things your product doesn't do, and these are things that probably, for at least a little while, AI won't be able to do. Go to market is number one, ability to listen.
So I mentioned earlier that I was a former journalist, and in my experience as a journalist, I can tell you that the power of listening that enables you to read context, and then ask a very powerful follow-up question, is not a skill set that everybody has, but it's something you can train.
And so in go to market's case, it's really teaching your team how to listen to the customer. The second key thing here is around building trust and relationships, and really create a really personal interaction. So how can, you know, what other kind of elements can you do other than human to human interaction that really results in a trusted relationship?
Go to market can advise and guide through complexity. The world is complex, decisions are getting more complex. How can you create a set of expertise that creates a trusted buying process? The other thing they can do is adapt creatively in real time, right?
That's like creative brainstorming. AI, you can do that with AI, but can you do that with like multiple perspectives in the room? And the last thing that go to market to do is actually navigate unspoken organizational politics. I'm waiting for the day where someone creates an AI product that can read all of the organizational dynamics and like spit something out, you know, in terms of how you would manage that.
But still, to this day, it's only humans who can do that. So how do you different, how do you take some of this stuff and turn it into like a real plan? I'm gonna walk through a couple of things that we've done at Mixpanel, share some of my experiences on how to actually unlock this, and the first thing you have to do is unlock your go to market team as your customer insights function.
So there's often a common mistake, which is go to market is about sales. They just have to sell. They have to sell, sell, sell, and like, you know, they're gonna make bookings. But the reality of it is this, your most underutilized superpower of all these people in go to market, in your frontline teams, is that they're talking to more customers every day, every minute, than your engineering product and design team is.
You should take that and turn it into the market insights you need to accelerate your innovation cycles. And how do you do that, right? There's a lot of technology out there now that can actually listen to your calls, record them, you can query them, you can ask them questions, you can fold that into a quantitative cycle for product development.
And there are some things that are very core to this. One is emphasizing the importance of listening in your go to market team. So every go to market team does a quarterly business review at Mixpanel. I assume all of you are doing that as well too, at some stage.
But one thing I ask my go to market teams to do is give me a slide or some bullets on what are the emerging needs of customers you're hearing about, right? That's not about spitting out how we lost or how we won, or where we feel uncompetitive.
It's really about listening on what are the things that you're hearing from customers that are really changing how you would think about what they need, customer needs. The second key thing that we've done at Mixpanel is that we've really embedded the voice of go to market in product development.
So no product gets shipped at Mixpanel without the product team asking, what does the field think about this? What is the field's reaction? So we have a field advisory board at Mixpanel that gets together with a product team. We get together on a monthly basis to review feedback from the field on launches we've just completed, launches that are coming out, and there's an active iteration cycle that is basically the voice of the field into any product decisions.
We also have a customer advisory board. The customer advisory board is basically owned by go to market, right? That is our core connection, we own those relationships. That customer advisory board gives us feedback on not only our product, but also our go to market approach.
And then separately, we have GTM advisory boards for almost like every single launch, positioning changes, all those things. So I would encourage you to think about how do you take your go to market investments and how do you systematize some of this, right?
The other key thing here is about defining process of ongoing differentiation. So creating a process for differentiation starts with one, segmentation, like we talked about. Two, listening. Three, taking all of that listening engine that you have in sales, creating insights that feed into your strategy, that allow you to innovate, and then constantly adapt.
So this feedback engine is enabled by systems and tools, and the rhythm of your business. And you can extract this on an ongoing basis. So many people from my team will tell you segmentation is an ongoing exercise for us. We think about what verticals are winning, what horizontals should we be focusing on, what type of customers did we win last quarter, how do we rethink segmentation on an ongoing basis.
That should be a live and agile type of activity. We talked a little bit about creating human led customer experiences, and obviously part of it is mapping it out. Map out the current state, map out where you want to go, or just start from the ideal, right?
What would be the ideal customer experience? What are our teams doing? What is the customer asking for? Really understanding the different kinks in that chain, so you can prioritize the ones where you fail the most. You want to focus on the moments of truth.
What's a moment of truth? It is when your customer has a clarifying moment about your product being the best product that they could buy. And when I say your product, I'm also talking about they're buying your people. And ditch the one size fits all playbooks, right?
Let your team express and guide the experience for the customer. And that brings me to this fourth point, which is about obsessing about quality of talent. I think about go to market, I think about my team as my product, and I obsess about the interface that they have with our customers.
So the reality of it is, is in your crazy annual planning calculator, you've kind of developed this like very average plan where everybody has an, is average gonna hit on average their number, and they're gonna get paid at average something. But the reality of it is if you actually double down and hire really, really top performers, you will 10x your productivity.
And there are some very counter intuitive things that we've done at Mixpanel. One is, I've hired less people than the math would suggest I do. Why is that? Because I actually wanna bank on the fact that more of my people are going to be more successful, because they're better people.
And if I do that, and I also don't spend a bunch of money on sales methodology, I can actually help them progress, and pay them more over time, and assume everyone's gonna make a lot of money at Mixed Panel. That is a culture of high performance.
And you should really think about like, what's driving this average of average of average culture, right? That's not the place that we wanna be. Actually, the best thing to do, the best thing to optimize for is how to have as small of a team as possible.
Why? Because you can move more quickly, and you can move more consistently. And the number one thing about strategies that fail is the lack of change management. Change management fails because there's too many people and too many people not getting on board with your strategy, and not being able to perform at your level.
So the smaller your team is, the better your team is, the better the experience is gonna be, the faster you move, and in these fast iteration cycles, the more you can transform. Like GTM strategy should be a constant state of transformation. So in this category of saying about quality of talent, the things that I look for are this.
I look for people who can listen. So anybody who I've hired to report into me, I actually put them through a listening test. I'll let them go through all of their interviews, and at the end, when they're kind of preparing for the final presentation with me, I tell them, I want you to put together one slide that tells me what you've heard.
Sometimes they're caught off guard. They're like, oh, what do you mean? What have I heard? And it's like, I just wanna know what you've heard. In that one slide, I usually know, first of all, can they synthesize information from a lot of different sources, and come forward with a pretty good representation of where the objective truth is.
But the second thing I can usually tell, is if they were asking the right questions. Because if that summary of what I'm listening, whether like their listening slide, if that summary is too shallow, I know that they weren't actually asking enough questions along the way.
The other thing I look for is adaptability. Like, are you able to navigate in a highly ambiguous environment? That's so important. Everything is changing, future of work is changing. Are you somebody who like thrives in ambiguity? That's a really key interview question. Now the last thing I'm gonna talk really quickly about is just architecting a culture of ownership.
So setting the ground rules for who owns you know what is probably not the most effective use of your time. But creating a culture across the company that where customer experience reigns supreme for both EPD and GTM is really critical. It starts with a vision.
The vision I have for go to market is to build differentiated customer experiences that lead to revenue growth and customer value. That's what I tell my team almost every time we're on a go to market all hands. And it's so important, because the differentiation is what drives revenue and what drives value.
And that can happen through empowering owners at every level to think about how does this affect the customer experience. It also happens by role modeling. So I sat in a meeting just yesterday, and our support team is thinking about how to create an internal process around communication if there's an incident.
And I asked them, how does this affect the customer experience? Have you mapped out what this is like from a communication standpoint for the customer experience? Always pushing them to think external beyond our teams. Now, how do we know it's working? Like I said, there's a lot of different metrics out there.
One of them is bookings to OTE ratio in sales. This is basically ROI on your sales team. How much money did each sales rep make compared to how much they make? Two point five x improvement over the last four quarters. And I would say this, go to market, you tend to think that there's a long time to think about when you see impact, but honestly, in two quarters, if you really are deliberate about the experience you wanna bring to your customer, you will see these metrics move.
Market share. Always look at external to see how you're doing relative to your market. We're averaging fifty eight percent of product analytics installs. Our market is crowded, just like yours. We compete with BI tools, we compete with other competitors, but this is basically saying that we are vendor of choice in many situations.
And then the last key thing is looking at actually revenue, right? Lagging indicator, but very important. We've overachieved our revenue targets for the last five quarters. I'll leave you with this thought. So we started talking about the OREO, and I wanted to leave you with this thought, which is are you building an Oreo, same taste, different wrapper, lower cost?
Or are you gonna do something really fundamentally different to win? So in twenty twenty, Oreo partnered up with a company called Supreme, which is like an urban escape brand. And they launched this Oreo cookie that is colored red, different color, same cream filling, a different logo, and they sold it only at Supreme stores.
And this thing went wild. Actually on eBay, like a pack of these cookies were selling for ninety one thousand dollars So my challenge to you is think really sustainably about where you're gonna get your differentiation. How creative can you get? What's the experience that's unexpected and spontaneous and very human for your customers?
And come and tell me about it, because I loved having ideas exchanged with different people. Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. It was really exciting. Thank you.
